TREE NEWS reports: A person who already possesses great wealth—why would he still want to go to work?
In a conversation with Allen Shao lasting over four hours, Justin Sun mentioned that he wants to work at a top AI company. By his explanation, the reason is not the salary: he has long viewed companies from the perspective of an entrepreneur and boss, but lacks firsthand experience working inside another company.
This point is more worth pondering than the grand judgments about wealth and the future in the interview.
Many people want to make money so they can finally stop working. He, however, is explaining why, after becoming wealthy, he still needs to enter an environment he is unfamiliar with.
Money can buy many things, but it cannot buy a perspective that a person has not yet acquired.
The interview ranged from fitness to AI, from career choices to financial freedom, and finally back to life experience. The topics seemed scattered, but behind them the same question repeatedly emerged:
When the world keeps changing, how does a person avoid being trapped by his own past experience?
For ordinary people, this may be more useful than “where is the next big trend.”
01 Where AI is truly useful lies hidden in those unglamorous daily routines
At the beginning of the interview, Justin Sun talked about his approach to health management.
He records diet, training, and sleep, hands the relevant information to AI to organize, and then adjusts based on feedback. He also mentioned storing records in his own documents for continuous use and for easy processing after switching tools.
What is most noteworthy here is not which model he used, but what he kept.
Most people still use AI in an ad hoc question-and-answer way:
Today they ask how to improve efficiency, tomorrow how to improve life. Each time they get a piece of advice that looks good, and a few days later they return to their original state.
The problem often lies in the fact that the advice lacks real context and has no follow-up results.
You say your work efficiency is low, but is it because there are too many tasks, unclear goals, or constant interruptions from messages? You say you want to change careers, but what have you already tried, which skills are transferable, and which constraints cannot be changed for now?
If this information is not recorded, AI can only give a generic answer around a vague question.
A continuously updated real record is closer to the starting point of changing your life than a hundred broad questions.
Applying this method to work holds just as true.
Writers can save topics, first drafts, reasons for revisions, and reader feedback; salespeople can organize customer questions, deal obstacles, and follow-up results; people seeking a new career can record job requirements, interview feedback, and their own skill gaps.
Over time, you get not just a database, but also the ability to see recurring patterns:
Which problems are always slowing you down? Which practices actually work? Are the things you always thought were important really bringing results?
AI can help organize and analyze this information, but it will not automatically complete the change for you. What truly works is the continuous process between recording, trying, feedback, and adjustment.
Ordinary people do not need to start with “AI-ifying their entire life.” Pick one very specific problem that repeatedly troubles you, and first get this process running—that already has meaning.
Figure 1 Recording and Feedback
Start with a specific problem and let each attempt provide information for the next judgment. The illustration is an original conceptual diagram for this article, not an original interview image or statistical data.
02 One step earlier than effort is seeing clearly what problem you are solving
One very vivid phrase in the interview is “scouting the map.”
Justin Sun used strategy games as a metaphor: some people immediately frantically build troops in their base, while others first send out scout units to see where resources are and what the opponent is doing, and then decide how to invest.
In reality, it is easy for us to become the former type.
Want to change careers? Sign up for a course first. Want to start a business? Rent a venue and make a product first. Want to do independent media? Imitate popular accounts first and post dozens of pieces of content in a row.
Action is fast, investment is heavy, but an earlier question has not been answered:
What demand actually exists here? Who will pay time or money for it? What makes me able to do it better?
Effort can increase the speed of action, but it cannot confirm the direction for you.
The value of “scouting the map” lies in making investment happen after fuller understanding.
Suppose you want to enter a new industry. Rather than rushing to buy a “master class,” first read a batch of real job postings to see what companies actually need; talk to a few practitioners to understand what is most time-consuming and hardest to solve in the work; then do a small project to test whether you are suited to it.
AI can help you organize materials, compare paths, and prepare questions. But when it comes to income, market size, and industry prospects, you still need to return to original sources and real scenarios.
Otherwise, the map may look complete, but you do not know which roads in it do not exist at all.
Of course, scouting the map also has boundaries.
You cannot wait until all information is complete before you start living. Constant research can also become a more respectable form of procrastination.
A better rhythm is: for decisions with high cost and low reversibility, investigate more; for attempts with low cost and correctability, act early.
Understand first, then validate in small steps. Let the next judgment be built on the information gained from this action.
In this way, investigation and action push each other forward instead of replacing each other.
Figure 2 Scouting the Map and Validation
Materials, interviews, and small projects complement each other, and investment gradually increases with evidence. The illustration is an original conceptual diagram for this article, not an original interview image or statistical data.
03 So-called freedom must land on what choices you still have
In the interview, Justin Sun once again explained his understanding of financial freedom: freedom first, wealth second.
This sentence is easy to turn into an inspirational quote, and also easy to misunderstand as “as long as you figure it out, you can have money.”
But in ordinary people’s lives, there is rent, children, parents, and income that cannot be easily interrupted. Cognition cannot change all real constraints.
More worth learning from is another concept he mentioned at the same time: mobility.
He used “following water and grass to live” to describe his choices—wherever he can better realize value, he considers going there.
This does not mean everyone should quit their job, move, or reject marriage and buying a home. For different people, family, stability, and long-term relationships may themselves be important values.
The question is: when making a decision, do we see the opportunities it will bring, and the choices it will close off?
A well-paying job may let you accumulate ability, but it may also gradually make you lose the habit of contacting the external market. A seemingly respectable consumption may improve life, but it may also increase ongoing expenses and make it harder for you to withstand career changes.
The cost of a decision, in addition to the money paid, also includes the possibilities you give up because of it.
For ordinary people, increasing choice often starts from very small places:
Keep spending within what you can afford; continuously maintain a skill that can be taken elsewhere; build connections outside work; occasionally test whether your skills are still in demand in the market.
These things are not as exciting as “turning the game around,” but they will play a role when change comes.
You may not immediately leave your current life, but knowing you still have other paths will affect how you negotiate terms, how you face loss, and whether you are willing to try.
Freedom therefore has a more concrete meaning:
You can seriously choose to stay, and you also have the ability to leave when necessary.
Figure 3 Preserving Choice
Ability, spending, connections, and experimentation together affect room for adjustment; it does not mean everyone needs to leave their current life. The illustration is an original conceptual diagram for this article, not an original interview image or statistical data.
04 The hardest update is admitting that the methods you are familiar with are no longer enough
In the interview, Justin Sun and Allen Shao repeatedly talked about the “small self,” that is, minimizing self-defense and being willing to accept new information.
This point is especially worth placing before “cognitive upgrade.”
Because contacting new knowledge is usually not difficult; what is difficult is allowing it to change you.
Someone who has done traditional business for many years may think that AI-generated things are not professional enough; someone who previously gained returns from a certain experience may interpret new changes as temporary noise; someone who has long been good at something may be unwilling to experience the clumsiness of a beginner again.
These reactions are normal.
Past experience helped us build ability, and also built identity. Admitting that a new method is more effective sometimes feels like admitting that what you were once proud of is no longer so scarce.
But the environment will not stop changing just because we are uncomfortable.
Past achievements prove that you once adapted to an environment; future performance depends on whether you are willing to learn again.
This also reminds us that when reading interviews with successful people, we should retain our own judgment.
A person’s business achievements do not mean his understanding of medicine, scientific research, or family relationships is equally reliable. You can seriously learn his method of observation while also checking his specific claims.
Similarly, using AI also requires this attitude.
Justin Sun expressed a high degree of trust in AI in the interview. But for ordinary people, a more practical approach is to let AI help propose options, find loopholes, and organize evidence, while you yourself bear the final judgment.
Especially in health, investment, and major life choices, a fluent answer cannot replace professional evidence.
True openness is being willing to let evidence change you. It includes both accepting new tools and promptly adjusting after discovering that a tool has made mistakes.
The ability to update must ultimately be reflected in behavior.
Knowing that a method is good and actually doing something different next time are still separated by a long distance.
Figure 4 From Learning to Action
Turn new information into practices, then use actual results to judge whether they are worth keeping. The illustration is an original conceptual diagram for this article, not an original interview image or statistical data.
05 Why did a conversation about opportunities end up talking about the body?
The interview spent a considerable amount of time discussing fitness and health.
Some of the numbers about lifespan and deterministic judgments about training results should not be directly treated as medical conclusions. But there is a layer of meaning worth bringing back to ordinary people’s lives:
We always treat the body as a tool for achieving goals, but rarely count it as part of the goal itself.
To increase income, stay up late for a long time; to avoid missing messages, attention is constantly interrupted; for the sake of future life, continuously overdraw the present state.
Then we expect to make it all back at once after some income threshold.
The problem is, even when the opportunity arrives, you need to be in good enough condition to recognize it, bear it, and continuously complete it.
A person’s available time cannot be calculated only by hours; it also depends on how much energy in those hours can truly be invested.
This is also why the body deserves to be included in long-term plans.
It is not asking everyone to pursue the same physique, nor is it saying fitness can guarantee longevity. Rather, it is about beginning to take seriously those habits that continuously affect quality of life: sleep, activity, diet, and the professional examinations and treatments one should accept.
Income is an easily visible result, but condition determines how we use that result.
Having more money while finding it increasingly hard to concentrate, enjoy relationships, and try new things is not the life most people originally wanted.
The meaning of health management lies precisely here: to give the choices you have fought for a chance to be truly used.
06 Don’t live life as an infinitely postponed redemption day
In the latter half of the interview, the topic shifted from how to obtain wealth to how to live after obtaining wealth.
Justin Sun described himself as a player still exploring. He did not give a final answer to the meaning of life, but emphasized experience and understanding the world from different perspectives.
This echoes the earlier “entrepreneur who wants to go to work.”
Many people’s lives have a redemption day that has not yet arrived:
Wait until I have earned enough money, then do what I like; wait until I am not busy, then take care of my health; wait until I am ready, then try a new direction; wait until I have thought it through completely, then decide how to live.
But some answers can only be obtained through action.
If you have never done a real job, it is hard to know from a description alone whether you like it; if you have never served a specific client, it is hard to understand so-called market demand; if you have never continuously created something, it is also hard to judge whether you are willing to turn it into a long-term career.
Information can help you get closer to a scenario, but experience will tell you how it feels to be in it.
Part of life’s direction is walked out.
But experience does not have to be expensive, and even less does it have to imitate someone else’s route.
Doing a small project, seriously interviewing someone in an unfamiliar industry, learning a new skill, or trying to publicly express your judgment can all bring new understanding.
At the end of the interview, Justin Sun also talked about the need to balance creation and consumption. He did not ask people to work all the time, and acknowledged that rest and enjoyment can help recovery.
For ordinary people, a question worth asking is:
In the past period, besides having seen many things and agreed with many views, what have I left behind?
An article, a piece of work, a service, a validated method—even if very small—will give you feedback from reality.
It may not succeed, but it will leave experience that can continue to be used next time.
In closing: Turn an interview into a real change
After reading a conversation of more than four hours, there is no need to accept every judgment of Justin Sun, nor to copy his life.
What is more worth taking away are several methods that can be verified on yourself:
Record real problems, so that advice has context; before making important decisions, understand the choices first; leave some room for trial in a new direction; when facts change, allow your practices to change accordingly.
If you want to start today, you can do just one thing.
Choose a problem that repeatedly troubles you and write it clearly: what the current situation is, what you have already tried, what limitations exist, and what kind of improvement you hope to see.
Let AI help you organize a few options, verify the important evidence in them, and then choose an action with controllable cost to do.
After some time, come back and record the results.
This step will not guarantee wealth, nor will it immediately solve life. But it can let “I understood” begin to become “I made a change.”
One ability ordinary people are worth accumulating is constantly turning new information into better next actions.
When this ability gradually forms, an interview, a book, or a new tool will not bring only brief excitement.
They will enter your life and leave traces.
This article is based on “Allen Shao × Justin Sun Four-Hour Podcast Transcript.” The conversation lasted about 4 hours and 22 minutes. The extended analysis of action methods for ordinary people in the text is the author’s interpretation, not the guest’s verbatim words.
